From the Investigator’s Desk: Spotting Scams & Strengthening Complaints

In this episode, OCP Investigator Lee Glass shares what he sees on the front lines of OCP’s complaint process. He walks us through the types of issues he commonly handles, why documentation is essential, and how consumers can build stronger complaints. Lee also discusses the scam patterns he encounters, the red flags he wants residents to recognize, and guidance on when to contact OCP for help.  

Have a question or suggestion for a future episode? Send an email to consumerconnection@montgomerycountymd.gov.

Transcript

Welcome And What Investigators Do

Michelle Escobar 0:10

Welcome to another episode of Consumer Connection, a podcast brought to you by the Montgomery County Office of Consumer Protection. I'm your host, Michelle Escobar. Today, we're giving you a look inside the daily work of one of our investigators, Lee Glass. Lee is the person who reviews your documentation, speaks with businesses, talks with residents, and helps guide consumers through the complaint process. He sees the patterns, the challenges, and the moments where a little preparation can go a long way. We'll talk about the kinds of issues he sees most often, how residents can file a stronger complaint, how to recognize when something isn't quite right, and when it's a good time to contact OCP for help. Lee, welcome. Thanks so much. What we learn through our daily, you know, work. Um, and each investigator has their own style, right? But we all have our the same goal, which is to help consumers um educate them, inform them, and empower them. And the podcast is like the wider net. But as investigators, we get to work individually with the consumers and we get to look at their individual situations and and help and inform them

Lee Glass On Common Case Types

Michelle Escobar 1:39

that way. So let's start by you introducing yourself and what kind of cases, what kind of cases do you see or do you handle?

Lee Glass 1:47

Sure. Yeah. Um, I have had the privilege of working with the Office of Consumer Protection for nearly nine years. Um, working with those individual consumers is uh it's an it's a wonderful thing that I have a job where you know I'm I'm I'm paid to help people. And uh sometimes helping people is working with them on their complaints. Sometimes it's educating businesses is as well, is something that we do. Um, if a business will work with us and and and listen, which are always helping, you know, happy to do. And sometimes it's you're referring a consumer to somewhere else to another state agency, to another county agency, because you know the government is large.

Michelle Escobar 2:29

Yeah.

Lee Glass 2:29

Um, but um, but yeah, as far as what what cases I handle, um right now um my my cases have kind of narrowed from from uh I used to mostly do uh home improvement cases and new home builder cases, and now um there's been some change in Montgomery County Code, and uh the majority of my cases or are involving uh landlord tenant disputes um that have um some type of of connection to um the Office of Consumer Protection and our laws in Montgomery County Code chapter 11. And then I also handle complaints against uh utility companies, Pepco, WSSC, um, washing gas, uh some retail stores. Um I handle some landscaping complaints, sometimes of things like alarm companies or pest control companies. Um so just kind of things like that. But uh, but it's it's uh I I generally really enjoy it.

What To Expect After Filing

Michelle Escobar 3:31

And so you have a variety and of of complaints there that that you um investigate when when consumers file a complaint and um what can they what can they um expect when when they when they file it, they they have maybe an expectation. So what how does it you know play out? You know, because you you've said a lot of things there. We can guide them, we can refer them. So not one investigation or complaint is the same and they have different um results. Um talk to me a little bit about um expectations versus um how a case might play out.

Lee Glass 4:09

Hmm. Well, I think consumer expectations are generally uh fairly low. Um they probably come to us probably frustrated. They've spent a lot of time maybe on the phone or emailing people and that they they haven't resolved this. And maybe they were complaining to someone, you know, in their social circle, and um, or or they already knew of our agency. Um we um and uh they they uh you know come to us. And you know, lots of times we're we're able to exceed those expectations and you know and resolve complaints. Um sometimes we can't. Um sometimes we can't find a merchant or they uh you know can't uh they won't respond back. Um sadly we do interact sometimes with with scammers, um, people that they don't don't give their real name or they're not actual businesses. Um but I think even in those times, it's been my experience um that you know the folks feel feel feel like I've tried. I feel like you know that's that's my impression at least. And I think that's probably the impression of other investigators, the other seven investigators in our office as well.

Scam Patterns And Pressure Tactics

Michelle Escobar 5:25

Yeah. And and and the thing is um it helps us still when when then people file complaints, um, even if we can't resolve something, it's good to to see the patterns and the tendencies of and uh of these scammers. Um that's how I learned about like these high pressure tactics. Um I you know, the patterns are are there. Um have you is there anything specific that that maybe you said, hey, I've seen this before?

Lee Glass 5:55

Um I really have. I mean, with with scams, I think as a whole, I mean, I think the first thing to to understand is a lot of them are fear-based, or you know, you you have to react in a certain amount of time, which is really kind of another FOMO. Yeah. Uh, you know, not not getting the deal.

Michelle Escobar 6:14

Right.

Lee Glass 6:14

Um, so I mean, that's that's definitely uh a main pattern. Um there was a group um of companies that I used to deal with a lot that were um unlicensed um driveway papers. Um for some reason, possibly through interactions with our office and MCPD and them kind of knowing that Montgomery County is is gonna be very proactive, you know, against these illegal activities. Um they really have not been in our our county this year, but for the three years prior, um they they were. And they would they would come to people's houses and they would say, you know, we just we just paved you know your your neighbor's driveway down the street and we have some leftover asphalt and we can give you this this deal, but it can only be for this amount of time. Um then sometimes they would say, Oh, but now I see a crack in a foundation, and you know, if you don't get that fixed, you're gonna have a big water intrusion, and you know, the the the forecast says rain's coming, you know, the next couple days, and it's you you don't want that to happen. And uh these are those are those are criminals, um you know, sadly. You know, people you know doing home improvement work without a license, that's automatic misdemeanor from the start. Yeah. And then it can go to felony theft.

Documentation That Makes Or Breaks

Michelle Escobar 7:39

Yeah. And that's why documentation is so important because I've seen that in so many of these cases, and where it's like they give you a receipt that you can't, that's it's not legible, uh, or a so-called contract. I talk to me about documentation because that's so that's a really important part of our investigation.

Lee Glass 8:00

Right. I mean, in in in those cases, and in my head really was with those cases for for quite a while. Um, I I have a Excel sheet with like 63 instances. And and a lot of those consumers were forced to pay in cash. So there's no documentation with cash. But if they if they paid by check, then there can be documentation where we can get information from their bank, issue a subpoena, and and you know, track the company or the business down. Um and then you know in the contract, you know, having that uh as part of your complaint um is something to be really important. If you're at a you know, if you're at let's say you you purchased uh something at a big box store, uh an appliance, you know, to to have your receipt um and warranty, you know, paperwork, it would be something that you know we definitely need, you know, just to have an understanding of maybe there's a third party um that's covering the warranty for after the first year. That's sometimes the case.

Michelle Escobar 9:05

Yeah.

Lee Glass 9:05

Um or it's the manufacturer at first, and then so just getting an understanding of those types of things and the terms.

Michelle Escobar 9:12

And a lot of times contractors, what makes me think of that, will say, um, your warranty is uh we'll send it to you, or it's online. And and then it's it's such a a hassle to if it's even available sometimes, like if the warranties are available on online. Um so just make sure that you just remind me, make sure that you have an understanding of all your warranties and have everything in writing and have it there. Absolutely. Yeah.

Lee Glass 9:38

I mean, as as much of you can understand uh of your rights as a consumer when you're making the uh decision-making process uh to work with a contractor um specifically, because I I think those are genuinely can be quite expensive type of things.

Michelle Escobar 9:54

But even with your products, yeah. Like you were talking, like your products, even from like Home Depot and stuff, like it's good to to have those, that, that understanding of what you're buying and what's covered. Um, a lot of times they'll say, um, do you want an extend extend your warranty like right then and there? Like, do you want like to cover eight days or 30 days? And you know, some people will take it, but if you do take it, understand it. Um sometimes I don't think it's even worth uh getting those, but hey, that's yeah, that's totally up to it. But just at least understand if you are gonna purchase that.

Lee Glass 10:26

Sure.

Michelle Escobar 10:27

Um one thing that I'm that's popping in my head right now is when people take photos of um of the license plate or of the truck or of the, you know, um, and and what comes to mind is like if you feel like you have to take a photo, maybe you shouldn't be doing business with those people.

Lee Glass 10:49

Yeah, you know, if you're getting that that spidey sense feeling that it's even gonna go well, it very well may not. Yes. Um, and and you know, I I think high pressure, fast talking, um, those types of things just you can just say I I'm I just don't want to make this decision right now.

Michelle Escobar 11:07

Yeah.

Lee Glass 11:07

Um yeah, I mean, something uh that I say fairly often to you know to consumers or or to friends is that you know if someone's coming door to door as a salesperson, they they they likely don't have your interest uh first in mind. They're every business wants to make money, yeah. But I think um I'm I'm especially kind of uh weary of door-to-door salesmen. Yeah, yeah. So just because of what I've seen and you know, with my work.

Michelle Escobar 11:39

Yeah, and and I agree. Like the trauma is is it's very relatable. Um, but I agree. I mean, you you have to have that time to pause. Um, you shouldn't don't don't sign right there. Um, whatever, whatever it is that you're that, you know, if someone's coming to your door, um, we're gonna talk about like complaints versus scams. And so a lot of times these door-to-door, like from our experience um with like the the pavers and things, um, you know, um, they're scammers. Um, we we we were even part of a group, um, the the Woodchuck, the WoodCuck uh task force. We were you part, we were both part of that. And because that's very it's it's real. I mean, in Virginia, uh Maryland, DC, like we had to come together and and talk about like these, these, these, uh, it's like a family, like there are there are families that that do um that do these scammers.

Lee Glass 12:34

It is it it's yeah, generational families of of scammers. Yes. And that's that's uh that's their bread and butter.

Michelle Escobar 12:42

So is there anything in your in your complaints that you said I um that we want to maybe remind the listeners of, don't forget to include, you know, these uh to make their their complaint stronger with whatever you are, your all your complaints that you're dealing with right now.

Lee Glass 12:58

I really can't think of anything specific. I mean, when we get what we call info calls, informational calls, the initial calls that come into our office where folks are are looking for advice and seeing if they should file a complaint. Um, I tell people just go ahead and file your complaint. Just just get your complaint and fill out the form, which is pretty user-friendly. Um if you can do it online, that's certainly an easy way to do it. But you know you can come to our office or or we can mail you a form, you can mail it back. Um, but as far as as things to you know to to always have, um I really can't think of anything specifically. Um could you?

Michelle Escobar 13:37

Well, I you know, I think um, I think maybe when uh just keep logs. I think if you could keep log of of of what you've done, um what the process has been, those are always helpful. Like when I get like timelines, I think that those are helpful with with um with the investigation. Because, for example, well, the the contractor or someone won't call me back. Well, maybe it's helpful to let me know um when have you reached out.

Lee Glass 14:06

Yeah.

Michelle Escobar 14:07

You know, and and and and then so then that way that gives me an idea, like, okay, yeah, no, this person is not.

Lee Glass 14:12

You know, it's it's I've I've seen some incredible chronologies um and documentation and narratives written far better than anything that I can write by the residents of Montgomery County. Um, you know, we have some some exceptional people here, uh, you know, from all walks of life. But but yeah, I mean, those those types of chronologies. I mean, that's that's a great thing that if you have a past record and can organize things, it definitely will make my job easier as an investigator to to get a handle on things to see what went wrong or when it went wrong.

Michelle Escobar 14:47

Right. Or even like those pictures of like, well, you know, he came and picked up the money and and and left. And I know he didn't do any. And if you got those pictures, then you know, the of the of the license plate or something. I think that that that that's helpful um because that helps us then at least pinpoint the person, gives us more of an op uh of a of an opportunity to to catch that person and say, okay, yeah, I know this guy.

Lee Glass 15:10

Face identification software out there that I have used. I can't say I've ever used any successfully. I think what I have available to me might might not be the best in the world.

Michelle Escobar 15:18

Yeah.

Lee Glass 15:19

But it but it could be there could be an image on your neighbor's ring camera or you know, or your own, or you just you just kind of never know. But yeah, I mean, um and outright, those types of scam cases, um, we look for for anything. Yeah, we definitely run license plates where we'll ask other states, you know, outside of Maryland to to you know go to their their vehicle um places to get that done.

Michelle Escobar 15:45

And pay with check, not cash.

Lee Glass 15:48

Yeah, and definitely or car to card. I think and and I think you also you know if if there's a a logo or it's on the business card, it's on the contract to pay to the company and not to the individual. And if someone I mean, I've I've also had cases again with the um um paving cases where that they really push back and they they wouldn't accept a a check to you know A1 paving um because it's not a real entity, they wouldn't have the ability to cash that check. Yeah. Um, but and then after some hemming and hawing, they the the contractors are scammers. Still contra they're still contractors, but they're scammers, they're illegal contractors, they they left and they you know they didn't they didn't come back. Yeah, so the consumers end up getting a really cruddy driveway that'll probably fall apart in a few years, but they didn't have to pay for it.

Complaints Versus Scams And Enforcement

Michelle Escobar 16:47

Let's break down scams and complaints because there are they're there are complaints and then then there are these, you know, these scammers, these in person is this peer pressure. Um a complaint is I think a complaint is when you're dealing with a real business, when maybe something went wrong and and you know, and you've got you've got the warranties, you've got the guarantees, you've got the licenses, yeah, and something something just goes wrong and and you need this is something that we we can definitely we we specialize in, we have we we enforce the the consumer protection law. This is something we can do something about probably, you know, we can mediate. Um but then you got these scams and and like what you're saying is be careful with with the the door to door, be careful with the phone calls. Is there something that that that you think that where like where where there's a scam and um and that you were able to to do anything about it or or is it or is it something that it's like sorry?

Lee Glass 17:58

Yeah, I mean there have been a number of times where you know our our office, we are a law enforcement agency. Um, you know, on on my badge it says investigator, but I I have one. Um and uh, you know, we have either referred things to the state for criminal prosecution for for scams, and we can identify people through the documentation. Yes, uh, or something that you know that can lead us to a direct identifiable person. And uh, or or we can also issue us issue civil citations um, you know, for someone not being licensed. Um, and oftentimes, or sometimes, uh maybe more so with the civil citations, um, that can then bring uh either a scammer or a legitimate business that maybe has done something um, you know, not not not that great that runs afoul of of the you know consumer protection laws on to the negotiation. Um sorry, back to the back to negotiate to the settlement to settlement and to to not be forced into court, which is kind of a long process.

Michelle Escobar 19:03

Yeah, and and and it's just more difficult with these, that's how we so important for everyone to know about like high pressure tactics and things like that, because it is more difficult as investigators to to um identify um and to pinpoint scammers. Um and and even the the scams that happen online and where like unfortunately some of them are like thousands upon thousands of dollars, people aren't seeing that take getting that money back. Um, you know, and and sometimes even even if we do, you know, work with the state's attorney's office, and um sometimes they're still not gonna get that money back. It it they these you know, these scammers there, they might get, you know, serve six months in jail or you know, whatever, a year, and and then it's over. So it's it's more important for everyone to know um the difference. Um, this impersonation and these offers that seem too good to be true. These offers about um, hey, I only today or, you know, so yeah. Um that know the difference because it does make it harder to identify someone and to get something that happened in a scam. It's harder to get um to be made whole with that. With some with the with a with a with a complaint and where you're dealing with another business, that's someone we can contact. That's someone we can talk to. Um, they these are you know businesses that that want to keep a good, you know, relationship with with their consumers, um, with um, you know, for their business. They care about their business. So um they try um to to work things out. But scammers, you gotta know the difference, you gotta know the red flags. So what do we do? Um if if we can't resolve something. What do we do? We um offer guidance, you know. That's really that's the only thing we can do is offer guidance, offer what next steps maybe you can take. Hopefully there's something. So whether it be, you know, freeze your credit or or things like that, like we can offer those things, um, and then share, you know, with the community what the patterns are. So so yeah.

License Checks And Storm Chasers

Michelle Escobar 21:22

Is there anything that you think is there anything that you've come across with with um consumers where you're like, man, I wish they would have noticed that that warning sign? I wish they, you know, are there anything that you can you know think of, like where it's like, man, I wish they would have known.

Lee Glass 21:41

Hmm. I mean, with with scammers or are or door-to-door salesmen, uh a legitimate door-to-door salesman has to have a laminate. They have to be registered with the Department of Permitting Services, you know, in in Montgomery County.

Michelle Escobar 21:58

Yeah.

Lee Glass 21:59

Um, to be able to go. door to door. So I mean anytime you see someone, the answer, you know, can't be that, oh, it's back in the truck, or you know, I'm I I forgot mine at home. Um just say I I'm sorry, just I'm I'm not gonna, I'm not interested.

Michelle Escobar 22:17

Right.

Lee Glass 22:18

You know, um you know when like if a horrible storm has come and uh we have something that that we refer to in in the in the woodchuck days as storm chasers. Um and these people, you know, they they tout themselves as being tree experts or lice or or or uh um arborists, um, which are designations by uh the Department of Forestry Natural Resources. Right.

Michelle Escobar 22:46

And I think that's forestry like a a part of it. It is that is that yeah yeah.

Lee Glass 22:51

Um and they're and they're not so I mean asking people for licenses, asking people for for that type of license for tree work, for an MHIC license, a Maryland home improvement license, that's what that little you know acronyms just flow a little quicker. Doing something for a while um before they do a you know a permanent change to either the inside or outside of your house um including paved and driveways.

Michelle Escobar 23:18

Yeah.

Lee Glass 23:19

Yeah.

Michelle Escobar 23:20

Okay. So let's do some myth busting.

Myth Busting Consumer Safety Assumptions

Michelle Escobar 23:26

I got some myth busting questions for you. Um so I'll ask you a question. Give me a a quick answer or clarification um on on that you think is appropriate. Right. I got three of them if a business has a physical storefront, does that mean it's safe?

Lee Glass 23:48

It really doesn't. I I've seen a number of instances, I guess a subject area that I worked in for a while um I don't mean to point a finger at one industry, but um that's cell phone companies. And I think there can be representatives either in a a regular storefront or let's say they're they're selling plans at an offsite location um not to you know these are big stores not to point any fingers again but like at a Costco or or Target or Walmart um and and those people may be offering things that are you know too good to be true. They they sound uh they sound really great. So um yeah I mean in in storefronts you mean you could still have bad employees. I mean even great companies can you know accidentally hire someone that they wish they hadn't or someone can be in a bad situation um trying to bend the rules for their own advantage.

Michelle Escobar 24:46

Yeah. That's very good. Thank you. We'll see we see more to go. All right um all right so if I'm having an issue with the business should I automatically call OCP first?

Lee Glass 24:59

Yeah uh no um you know if it's a uh you would always just kind of try to to see what's going on and and contact the business, give them an opportunity to try to resolve the issue um before um the government you know gets involved. Um it could be uh good thing save you time uh um I'm not worried about my own time um you know I'm I'm I'm at work so it's fine yeah but um but just but but maybe for that business as well that um maybe there's just some miscommunication and things can be straightened out.

Michelle Escobar 25:34

Exactly yeah and and and we can find that a lot of times where it they don't want to you know escalate things and and just talk to them first um put things in writing when when possible um because in that way um I don't know just to file a complaint you're probably you probably could get it done um in a one-two with a phone call right I had a call yesterday and it was kind of a lengthy call and I said well just tell them book you know that that you you spoke to an OCP investigator and he sees the an issue with this and this and and that maybe maybe that'll help.

Lee Glass 26:12

Yeah. So we're we're always glad to speak with people if they have questions. But um yeah yeah give it a shot reach out first.

Michelle Escobar 26:21

Exactly not everything has to escalate to a complaint. And and I like that you just mentioned the you know you can always call and ask us for some advice um ask what do you think about this? What's going on? What what do you think about this situation? And uh and and you know that well our advice might might work you never know and I and I and it has I've had situations where like oh yep I just made the call and and everything worked out we're good. So that's good.

Lee Glass 26:47

Yeah we well we could look up a company you know for that call and see if they've had past complaints you know that's right um our system goes back a while.

Door Knocks And Today Only Deals

Lee Glass 26:56

Yeah don't 07 right so um generally uh you know yeah anything can be helpful yeah no I agree okay and this is our this is our our our our trauma here if someone knocks and offers a today only driveway deal are we signing up or running away I mean we kind of asked an answer you already said that but um but I understand you you had your very well prepared I had it very well prepared let's say it again run run run run if they don't leave uh upon really the first request really the second thing to say is I'm gonna call the police and let you leave my property yeah um and just um these these scammers they put their their very best uh face forward the group of scammers will put their most charming most appealing face forward of the group and um they will they hone these skills um to be as good as they can be to be as appealing as they can be yeah um and uh and then to not leave generally in the first request you know well no make a second offer or a third and sometimes you'll see it an enormous I've heard of big price drops um another thing to really you know be wary of those two good to be true offers and today only okay so before we wrap up um let's uh a couple of of of of takeaways um uh let's go back review a little bit what is our top advice for um a strong complaint and just uh good documentation receipts contracts um a chronology yeah I think that was a great point that you made which could be really helpful to us um yeah

Key Takeaways And How To Reach OCP

Lee Glass 28:50

and your top tip for avoiding a scam to pause and think and and not to make any snap decisions um but yeah you're in you you you're in control of your of your talk about yeah if you didn't initiate that uh that uh communication as well or that contact yeah pause yeah absolutely yeah all right thank you so much for joining us today I really appreciate it all right and thanks to our listeners for tuning in to Consumer Connection if you'd like to file a complaint learn more about scams or stay informed about consumer protection in Montgomery County visit our website at Montgomerycountymd.gov forward slash OCP and remember even if you're not sure something is a scam contact OCP before you sign or pay we're here to help we'll see you next time don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and keep an eye out for upcoming episodes where we'll continue to bring you important updates and insights on consumer protection.

Michelle Escobar 30:05

Have a topic in mind for a future episode or a question for our team? Drop us an email at consumerconnection at Montgomerycountymd.gov If you enjoyed this episode please share it with your friends and family and stay in the loop with OCP by searching the hashtag mcocp on social media. Remember knowledge is key for safeguarding your consumer rights.

Announcer 30:32

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