Consumer Connection

Community Voices & County Partners: Spotlight on Elder Abuse Awareness (Part 1)

• Michelle Escobar

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In Part One of our special two‑part series focused on elder abuse awareness, we sit down with three remarkable volunteers from the Montgomery County Police Department's Keeping Seniors Safe program: Judith Boivin, Dolores Miller, and Jane Dean. 

Each of these community advocates has personally survived a scam—and those experiences are what fueled their passion for educating and empowering older adults. In this conversation, they share how their paths crossed, what made this issue deeply personal, and why they stepped forward to become peer educators within their communities. 

They reflect on the moments that changed their outlook, the common questions they hear during their presentations, and the red flags they want every older adult and family to recognize. Their stories are both eye‑opening and deeply uplifting, offering a unique perspective on resilience and the power of speaking out. 

A transcript for this episode can be found here:
https://www.buzzsprout.com/2385106/19335213-community-voices-county-partners-spotlight-on-elder-abuse-awareness-part-1/transcript

Have a question or suggestion for a future episode? Send an email to consumerconnection@montgomerycountymd.gov.

Welcome And WEAD Focus

Michelle Escobar

Hi everyone, and welcome back to Consumer Connection, a podcast brought to you by the Montgomery County Office of Consumer Protection. I'm your host, Michelle Escobar. Today's episode kicks off a special two-part series highlighting the power of community voices and county partnerships in raising awareness about elder abuse, especially as we recognize World's Elder Abuse Awareness Day, or WEAD. In part one, we're joined by three incredible community advocates, Judith Boivid, Dolores Miller, and Jane Dean. They're volunteers with Montgomery County's Keeping Seniors Safe program, and they bring an energy and passion that truly moves and empowers the people they meet. Then in part two, we'll talk with Mario Wawrzusin from the Montgomery County Adult Protective Services. He'll help us understand red flags, reporting, and how our county agencies work together to protect vulnerable adults. Let's jump in.

How The Advocates Found Each Other

Michelle Escobar

Ladies, thank you so much for being here today. It really is a privilege. I got to meet you once at the ARP. I think it was their kickoff uh press conference, Protect Week. Yes, that's right. And so your energy is like no other. Um I really again appreciate you all being here. But let's start by each one of you, please introducing yourselves. We can start.

Jane Dean

Okay. I'm Jane Dean.

Michelle Escobar

Jane. Jane Dean.

Judith Boivin

And Judith Boivin.

Dolores Miller

I'm Dolores Miller.

Michelle Escobar

Dolores Miller. Again, thank you so much. Um so, Jane, Judith, and Dolores, you all three have um have come together because there is something that connects you. Um, and we want to hear uh your story today and how you you got to meet and how you became the force that you are today. Um, but it was through an experience that really can happen to anybody, um, an experience that um stays with you um in so many ways. Um so if if maybe uh uh you would start for us.

Jane Dean

Okay, well, the three of us met at the victims support group that AARP runs. And uh that's how we were able to connect with each other. And it turns out that all three of us live like two and a half miles from each other, so it made it much easier. It's easier for us to coordinate um and get together and become a part of the Keeping Seniors Safe program that is run by Bill Paiser. Um that's kind of how we got together. It's an unusual situation because we don't normally meet in person other people that are members of the support group.

Judith Boivin

Well, yeah, the support group is very, very anonymous and certainly it was uh instrumental in us, all of us, and I know especially for me for being here. Um it I first joined it in February of 24. And my scam went from September until um January, end of January 24, September of 23 to the end of January 24.

Dolores Miller

So as far as the three of us um getting together and going out and doing presentations and our advocacy, it happened kind of just by chance. Um, like they said, we were in the support group together, which is on Zoom. There are people from all over the country, even other countries. Coincidentally, near my home, there's a senior center. I live in Silver Spring, and I saw that at the senior center they were doing a presentation about scams. And my scam had just happened about two months before, and I was in the support group. So I went to this presentation on scams, and they made a joke out of it in this presentation. It was done in-house on the senior center by just the regulars there. And they made this little bit video about a grandparent scam, but they did it to a song. It was a joke, and people were laughing. And I found it very disturbing because I said, I don't think anybody in my support group would think this is funny. Um, so I went to the director of the senior center and I told her my feelings, asked her, please never show that again. She was a little defensive, but not too bad. And then that time went by another month, and here I saw in another location that they were doing something about scams. And I thought, I can't let this happen again. So I contacted them, found out it was a completely different organization. It turned out it was Bill Piser from the Keeping Seniors Safe Program. I got in touch with him, told him my story, and he said, I would really be honored if you would come and do these presentations with me. Because up to that point, it was just him. So I was con I went to the support group and I said, What does everybody think, you know, about me doing this? And Judith and Jane, being that they live near me, both said, we're gonna come there with you to support you. And when I told Bill, he was ecstatic and he said, Well, they speak too. And so that was the first time that the three of us were in the community. Now, obviously, they had spoken about things prior to that, but that was how we got started as a group.

Jane’s Amazon To SSA Trap

Michelle Escobar

Oh, and and a group that you are. Let's let's talk about what happened, your experience. What was what was the scam?

Jane Dean

Jane, well, my scam was a call from Amazon uh telling me that they suspected someone uh was fraudulently using my Amazon account um and trying to get payment from my bank. Well, I don't have an Amazon account, but they named my bank and they were right about the name. And so that's how my scam got started. Um it's it would be, I guess, what you would call a government imposter scam. So I was transferred uh to uh three or four different times until I ended up with the scammer who re who represented himself as a security officer for um the Social Security Administration. And so that's how that started. So by the time I got to him, like I was so under the ether um in a state of uh hyper-emotional distress that you know that that was uh that's how the scam starts and works. And and so it started by the Amazon, and then and then you said that you I was transferred first to the fraud department of my bank. Okay, and then I was transferred to the FTC, then to the FBI, and then to SSA. Each at each place they were saying that, oh yeah, well, you need to talk to so and so, I'll transfer you. So I was transferred five times.

Michelle Escobar

And so you were thinking that you were calling your bank?

Jane Dean

I well, it started with me thinking that I got the call from Amazon. They're trying to confirm whether this was going to be a legitimate purpose uh purchase or not. Okay, okay. And uh I told them it was not. Okay. And so because the it was fraud, that's how they said, Oh, you need to talk to so-and-so, we'll transfer you. You need to talk to so-and-so, we'll transfer you. So there were five transfers.

Michelle Escobar

So And so what happened after that?

Jane Dean

The scammer told gave me very specific instructions. He told me someone was trying to set up uh an account in my name in Mexico where they could launder uh $300,000 of dark money, and that I could actually be prosecuted for money laundering if they were successful. And so they um, you know, encouraged me to, you know, help them try to catch the bad guys, which, you know, uh, you know, I said, sure. Yeah. And uh, and so that's they told me what what I needed to do. I needed to send my clean money to a criminal lawyer in California who would set up a government secure account for me, and that's where it would be stored. And that um I needed to go to the bank and and send the money. And any person I talked to, I couldn't trust anybody not to tell anybody anything. You can't trust anybody, even the bank tellers could be in it, uh, in on it, and um and just to leave my t cell phone turned on when I'm interacting with anybody. So they could record it and use that as evidence when they catch the bad guys and go to court.

Michelle Escobar

And what was the time frame?

Jane Dean

That time frame from the start to finish being under the ether and being removed from the getting, you know, removed from the ether was five days in my case. Our scams are so different. I mean, even in the in time frames, as Judith will explain about hers, yeah, and Dolores will explain about hers, that it it's just it's dramatically different.

Michelle Escobar

Yeah.

Jane Dean

Then let's hear it, Judith.

Judith’s Call Turns Into A Case

Judith Boivin

Well, the similarities are there's so many threads that are alike. I had a FBI imposter scam, and I mine started by um a phone call coming in on my car. Um, I was dropping my husband, who is Parkinson's, at a medical appointment. And the the screen showed uh Rockville County Police, Victor Brito, who is was the chief of police in 23. And I was pretty like, wow, what's that all about? And then it rang a bell. A couple days earlier, I'd had a call from that same number, but I disregarded it. But when I saw it on the screen in my car, okay, so I answered it, and the individual identified himself as Victor Brito. And um my husband got out of the car while I was speaking, so I was all by myself. And he he just said to me, asked me if anybody was around, and I said, No. And he said, Um, you're being charged with uh fraudulent money laundering, and we've had three bank accounts opened in your social security number. And I said, Oh, that's crazy. I don't believe that. Anyhow, he said, well, we know, but it is an active case with the FBI, and so we're gonna be transferring you there. And so there goes the transfer to the FBI, and the FBI agent that comes on the line identifies himself as Wayne Jacobs, director of the cybersecurity for the uh and and at the uh field office in DC. And in the interim here, I'm Googling these names on my phone, and I'm seeing that they're real. And so I allow him to speak up and tell me what's this about. And he goes on to give me quite a story about the horrors of fentanyl and the number of deaths that are being experienced in this area, and the accounts that have been opened under my social security number. And would I be willing to be an asset? So I said, Well, yeah. And then, of course, can you keep confidence? You don't tell anybody, not even your husband. That was pretty much the first encounter in that phone call. But at the time of speaking with the FBI imposter, he did initiate a code word for calls that he was going to be giving me at nine and five every day. And I would have to have my qu my question was uh tell me what my favorite color is. And then if it was somebody else other than the code word we'd set up. Anyhow, so I got called every day, twice a day, and um kept this kept confidence, and the scheme developed in a few days, but I had to sign a lot of documents that were sent to me via email and yeah, mostly email. And all of them came with the um identity of the FBI and Wayne's number or initials and name signed, and I got documents to fill out, which included all my financial report, declaration of finances, and social security number. Anyhow, that I I did it all trusting that I was really working with the FBI. And as rare as that really sounds, um, I mean, I looking back, it seems so evident, but at the moment I totally believed and trusted. And the idea of being able to help intercept or you know, can uh close out some cartels, um, I was all for it. Yeah. Who wouldn't want to help a law enforcement with that? And I had lived in Mexico, I was pretty uh familiar with that, but the FBI uh imposter also had all that information about me, knew everything. And I later realized that it had been gotten from the LinkedIn where I had my resume of where I'd lived, where I'd worked, what I'd done, what my degrees were, on and on.

Michelle Escobar

And that's it, because they had your bank information. Like they have they they they had that correct. So they and the phone number that you uh received was the actual name of the with the chief of police.

Judith Boivin

The chief of police and Wayne A. Jacobs is a real person. He's now up in in Pittsburgh, and Victor Brito has retired from the the his office in in Rockville. But yeah, they're real people. And these are yeah, these are things that click and say, well, they're real people.

Michelle Escobar

Right.

Judith Boivin

You have no reason to doubt. And uh, and of course, uh I I have to excuse myself to some degree because of my age. And you know, when you're in your 80s, you haven't been brought up with all this internet. And the idea of of even frauding a government agency, it wasn't at all in my bandwidth.

Michelle Escobar

Yeah. And that has nothing to do with age because you there's it's like now it's coming out because of stories like yours and people like you that come out with your stories and and let people know, but nobody would know. Nobody would think. Yeah, yeah. Thank you, Dolores.

Dolores Miller

Oh, one, did you want to say what they had you do?

Cash Withdrawals And Drop Coordinates

Dolores Miller

Yeah, okay, yeah.

Judith Boivin

Please, yes, well, they had me withdraw all my uh money from my IRS, which was at IRAs in in um in Wisconsin, because I had that's where my original finances had been for over 30 years at Morgan Stanley. And so the withdrawal of my money all came through there. And of course, I had a management fund and my IRAs were there, my annuity was there, my savings was there, everything I had for life. And it came to around 600,000, and I had to withdraw it in cash, transfer it to four different banks here in uh Maryland, and then proceed to withdraw 10,000, 20,000 and $20,000 increments in cash. And there was a story I had to tell, and the phone was always on when I was at the bank. I had to open all those accounts. Um, and the monies were being transferred from Wisconsin to each of these different banks.

Michelle Escobar

The secrecy, the stay on the phone, don't tell anyone. They they want to isolate you.

Judith Boivin

Right.

Michelle Escobar

Um, and that this was in the timeframe of two, did you say

Judith Boivin

It went from 23 and 23rd of September until the 19th of January 24. And the inner room, it took me an entire month to get my funds out of the uh Morgan Stanley. And on uh by October 31st, I had zero at that financial institution, and it was distributed at PNC, TD, Chase, and Capital One, all four of the banks in my local area. And the withdrawals um started immediately. The money needed to be bundled up, and once I got $20,000, I had to bundle them, and then the the FBI team would meet me at a coordination. They sent me coordinates, and I would drive to that in uh that location, the other cars, car would come up, they would have the back window on the passenger side down, and I was to get out of the car and drop my bundle that had my case study and the um locker number where the money was gonna go at the courthouse in DC. And I was told throughout the scam that the money would be returned and I would be given a new social security number. And of course, that never happened. Wow. And the OAG that got notice on the the OAG in Baltimore, who where Morgan Stanley sent a notification in an email that got read in January 18th, 19th of 24. And my money was all given to stolen from me to these thieves, imposters, uh in from November 15th until December 15th. But the scam didn't end until the 29th, uh till 19th. 19th of January 24, when the OEG's office told me, Oh, you've been scammed.

Michelle Escobar

And never recuperate any of it?

Judith Boivin

I did get uh 50,000 back.

Michelle Escobar

Okay.

Judith Boivin

Thank you to uh Michael Adami from the Montgomery County Police. He's no longer there either. But yes, he retrieved uh um two cashier's checks for $50,000 that had been sent to an attorney in California, and it turned out that that woman had also been part of the scam as a victim. Because when they money laundering, money launder, they send to all these places, but those people are also under their influence. So there's many, many, many layers, prostates and the international element of it. The FBI came also and they had an open case. The number they had already traced, they knew that it was from India, and there were 12 others besides myself that had been victims to that very same scam. And actually, it was Michelle Singletary in her seven-piece article in December of 24 that identified the whole different states where this was a similar scam by the similar group.

Michelle Escobar

Oh Judith. Dolores.

Dolores And The Bitcoin Machine

Dolores Miller

I was shopping for bird seed. I had a list of errands I had to do that day, so I was, you know, getting on a roll. My phone rang and it said private number, and I didn't answer it. And it rang again saying private number. By the fourth time, um, I thought something must be wrong, and so I'm going to answer it. The caller identified himself as a Montgomery County police officer. He said there was a warrant out for my arrest because I had not responded to several supports. Subpoenas. And I told him, well, that can't be me because I never got any subpoenas. And he said, Well, then somebody else is using your name. You're going to need to come down to the sheriff's office to straighten this all out. And at that point, I thought, I don't think this is for me. And so I said, okay, I'm going to hang up now. And he, that's when he got me under the ether. He raised his voice and he said, No, you're not going to hang up. You don't tell the police what to do. We tell you what you're going to do. And this is a case involving an ongoing murder investigation. And we're going to need your cooperation, or you could compromise this murder investigation. So at that point, then he got me. At that point, he also texted me a copy of the warrant for my arrest. My name was on it, spelled correctly. He led me to believe that the sheriffs were going to come to my house to pick me up and bring me down there to clear it up. But I had to show that I had the money for the bond so as not to be arrested. And he instructed me to take cash and to go to a Bitcoin machine. He gave me a number that I was supposed to enter in the Bitcoin machine to send the money to. And that would be held by Montgomery County police. And that when this was all cleared up, I would get all my money back. He again instructed me not to tell anybody that if I did tell anybody, I could compromise the investigation and a murderer could go free. And so I did not go to a bank. I happened to have a safe in my home that had cash in it with money that my husband and I had collected over a period of many years when we would do extra jobs other than our work, just so that when I retired, if we needed something extra, it wasn't money that we were using on bills or things like that. It was money for emergencies. And um, and I knew that I had that money there. So I went home and I was taking the money out. And while I was doing it, I would start to cry because it was so organized with the envelopes and the dates and everything and description of what we had done. And I was tearing all these envelopes open and I would cry and he'd get really nice and he'd say, No, it's gonna be okay. I'm right here, I'm gonna walk you through it. You're gonna get every bit of this money back. And if you even stop and need to get lunch, keep the receipts, keep all these receipts when you come to the courthouse. We're gonna just gonna give you all this money back. It sounded plausible to me. I didn't, to me, a Bitcoin machine was like an ATM. You put your money in, you get your receipt, you know where your money goes, and then you get it back when you need it. So um I didn't know. So he I didn't even know where a Bitcoin machine was. So he had to instruct me. And I was too worked up to drive. So I took Ubers. And even at one point, when I got to the store, it was a giant grocery store uh where um the Bitcoin machine was. And I even said to the Uber driver, could you just wait here? I'm going in to make a deposit, I'll be right out. And he started saying, Don't talk to anybody. You've already said too much. And I could hear him on the phone. Um, and when I got in to the giant, I asked the security guard where the Bitcoin machine was. He pointed it out to me. It was just right there. Um, and I followed all the instructions as he told me, you know, as the scammer told me what numbers to put in. Um and then sometimes if I the money wouldn't go in, you know, sometimes like it wouldn't accept a certain bill. And I was doing all hundred dollar bills. And um, and if I would get worked up, he again he would be like, it's all right, come on, just we're gonna get this done. But then if I would say something to him, like or question or something, or say, I'm confused. One time I said to him, I'm really confused. Then he'd get mad and he'd say, You need to pay attention. You need to do what we're telling you to do. So he played good cop and bad cop all by himself. Um, I could hear police radios in the background. Every now and then he would act like he was talking to someone. Maybe he was, I have no idea. And he would say, No, no, she understands. It's all right. She knows what she's supposed to do. So I, of course, I pictured him being in a, you know, a police station.

Michelle Escobar

Sure.

Dolores Miller

So at one point, going back and forth, because I ended up having to make two or three trips to fulfill the exact amount of money, he'd say, Oh, no, you you've read you read it wrong up in the corner of the warrant. There's, it tells you, when you read that wrong. So I, at one point, I left a note for my husband saying, um, someone stole my identity, they're treating me like a criminal, they're taking me to the sheriff's office. I'm terrified. And um, I was so scared when I wrote that note because I still believed that the sheriffs were coming to pick me up. And I thought, what if they come in the house? They see that I wrote that note, then they're gonna say, I compromised the investigation. So I was like so scared at this point. I had my I had myself getting all worked up. Um my husband came home, saw the note. I was at the at the giant at the Bitcoin machine. He drove down to the sheriff's office to find me, discovering that I wasn't there. Um, they did mention to him that he needed to find me as soon as possible, and that if he could not find me, because they said she's being scammed. If he couldn't find me, they said this will become a kidnapping case. And I had forgotten that until recently when he reminded me. So he was scared. Um, and he came home, he saw the door open, he walked in, he saw the safe open, but he didn't see me yet. He thought there was still maybe someone in there with me. Um, and so when he found me, I was still on the phone with the scammer by myself. And he just yelled out and said, Hang up, it's a scam. And the scammer said, Who are you talking to? And I said, That's my husband. You're a scam? I mean, you're for me, I mean, you're numb when you first find out. There was this was your reality at that moment. And then all of a sudden, it's not. And and I just said to him, You're a scam. And he didn't say anything. And then he said, Oh, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to scam you. There was a different Dolores Miller that I thought I was finding that I wanted to scam. She did my son dirty, and I'm trying to get back at her, and now I got the wrong person. So send me your bank account number and I'm gonna send you every bit of this money back. Well, I didn't. I hung up, obviously.

Michelle Escobar

Even then kept going. Yeah, yeah.

Dolores Miller

Well, I guess he figured, you know, if I can just get a little more, by then it was approximately had taken about $10,000 from me.

Michelle Escobar

Yeah. Five hours, months, five days. You just never know. But it's the same, the same, the same type of um tactic in a sense that they imposters, uh angry, pressure if they need it. They they know exactly what what to do.

Dolores Miller

Um to just the ether, as you said. I felt like I was hypnotized then and looking back and kind of watching myself now. Yeah, I feel like I'm watching a person who's being manipulated. Yeah.

Stolen Not Lost And Tax Fallout

Michelle Escobar

When I first um met you three, um, Jane, you had said something very interesting, which was very it's which is very true. Um we describe it as money lost. But what do you say? Stolen.

Jane Dean

That's a trigger for me, I guess. Yes, it's stolen, not lost. And as soon as anyone says, uh, you know, so and so lost this amount of money, uh-uh. I just like stolen. And I when I was at the hearing in Annapolis, I was sitting next to the delegate, and uh some woman was asking questions, and she said, Well, it's money that was lost. And I s I grabbed his pen and I wrote on his notebook. I didn't realize it was I wrote stolen, not lost.

Michelle Escobar

So yeah, because it's true.

Judith Boivin

And it is I I know, and I dropping those bundles of money in in the back seat of a vehicle is kind of a nightmare. And I I believe so that I was gonna get everything back. And I didn't have the the awful fear that um Dolores describes because I had an intention since I came to Maryland to move my money over to a closer bank. And so even though I was really dedicated to being an asset for an FBI case, especially with drug trafficking, I I thought, well, I'll get it back and I'll it'll all be here. Of course, I did not understand at the time that this was my uh IRA's and the IRS has their role in this as well, because everything that's stolen and not turned over in 30 days is taxed. And so the tax consequences of all that money, it's still charged taxes on me. Well, I don't have that. I don't have any money to pay the taxes.

Why Smart People Still Get Scammed

Michelle Escobar

So as you three speak to the community, um what are what are um some of the things that um what are some questions that you get? What are some things that you learn? What are things that that that the community doesn't understand um and that the message that you're trying to get across to them?

Jane Dean

Well, I think uh a lot of people, they they mean well. I mean, all all three of us, we mean well, we want to follow the the law, follow the rules and everything like that. And people are reluctant to just summarily dismiss people. And you kind of have to get over that when it when it's you're it's called upon. Yes. And that's that's hard for people who are trusting and who's who want to be helpful um in in the long run. And so that's uh an instinct that needs to be uh quashed. And um, it doesn't help that both Judith and I were nurses uh and you know, nurses help everybody, yeah.

Judith Boivin

And not only that, but social workers besides and other things. But at any rate, the I guess the questions are there usually aren't too many questions, especially with the groups we meet with. Occasionally we get a little bit more, but I think it's a realization that it can happen to them because the way that um previous to our coming out about this, people frequently, well, how could you do that? Didn't you know? What was that? You know, and we are the victims. We're are we are the uh the criminals because we were too stupid or didn't uh weren't careful enough or didn't have enough caution or whatever.

Jane Dean

And I want to throw in uh something here as well. Um, when I told my uh small circle of friends, I had posted four different articles on my Facebook page about scams and and witness uh uh shaming and everything. And I could one I followed up with one of them and I said, What did you think of those articles? And she said and she wrote back that I just don't see how anybody could fall for such a scam. And my my jaw just dropped. And I just all I could text back to her was wow.

Michelle Escobar

Yeah. Yeah.

Dolores Miller

I think that most people think that it can't happen to them. And I think one of the differences that it's made with us being there in person is Bill Pizer will do his wonderful, well thought out presentation that he does that he's always refining. And that's about 40 minutes or so, 45 minutes, and people are taking notes and they're listening to all the facts and all the different scams. And then we each get up to speak. And I feel like I can ch s f sense a change in the room. Because now it went from hearing all about this and taking notes to like oh, there's a real person right there, and they're talking about it.

Judith Boivin

I I I just think that the personal story is really what is the education edge. Because the words, oh, you've got to don't answer these calls, oh, do this, don't do that, oh watch for this, watch for that. But when you hear somebody's story telling you what's happening, it makes a difference. And when we were at the Capitol the other day in Maryland um, and the the senator said that this the bill we just got passed is because we were live people at that defendant table.

Michelle Escobar

Yeah.

Jane Dean

Right. We were talking about that on the way home from Annapolis. We just both are kind of incredulous that our live testimony could have that much of an impact on their, you know, their impression of the usefulness and helpfulness of this bill. I mean, I'm still kind of incredulous that, you know, that's I'm so proud of them.

Dolores Miller

I mean, to think that they were part of lawmaking. Yes. Um, I was actually not part of that because it's about banking and I never went to a bank. So no, I wasn't part of that. But just knowing that they were doing that, and I just how exciting can that be to be such a part of history and crypto bills.

Judith Boivin

How you get crypto scammed.

Dolores Miller

I was actually at the days they were there, ARP had flown me down to Raleigh, North Carolina, because North Carolina is in the process of trying to get legislation to outlaw the Bitcoin machines, or at least put clear signage as to what they are use for. Um, 90% of the activity that goes on in a Bitcoin machine is illegal activity.

Jane Dean

Um I think Nevada has has passed a law that there's 23 states that passed a law that um don't allow that don't allow the Bitcoin machines. Right.

Dolores Miller

And so North Carolina was trying to get this done. And so um they had me come out to North Carolina. That's what I was saying. I did four interviews on Tuesday morning, and then they were actually going to the commute into the community to the stores where the Bitcoin machines were and leafleting the employees. And the employees were, they were amazed, they had no idea. They didn't know that, they didn't know why that machine was in their store. And and so I think what I said is I had mentioned the security guard. If maybe if somebody had been leafleting and that security guard had read, oh, okay, this is what people do, I don't know. Maybe he would have thought, why does this lady keep coming and going? Why is she crying over there at that machine? I'm not saying for sure. I'm just saying I think that was a smart thing for them to do. Because when we do our presentations, people have to come to us. Yes. And so they have to make that choice. But if you're just going to go to people and you're going to give them information, that's just another direct way to get the education.

New Protections For Banks

Jane Dean

Oh, and also I'd like to add that the bill that was passed by uh signed by Governor Moore is the vulnerable, uh, vulnerable adult protection act. And one thing I I did not mention in the my scam was that I had gone to three branches of the same bank, but I had to go to a different branch, okay? And it was at the third branch where the bank manager came out and spoke to me and pulled me into his office. And uh, because that when I asked for the money, the teller said, we don't have that much. And she disappeared for a few minutes, and the bank manager came out. And and he uh and he said, Ask me some very gentle, non-threatening questions. And then he's he looked at me and he said, Jane, what's going on? And I broke down in tears and told him. And I said, Right now my phone is turned on. He said, You are being scammed. And he had in the meantime put in the address where I'd sent two packages of money and showed me on his screen what was at that address. And it was an empty house on a new home's construction lot, and that's how he knew. Now, what he did at that time, um, he didn't have any legal protection for what he did for me. He brought me out from under the ether. Okay, but this vulnerable adult protection act will protect bank managers and tellers if they feel, if they sense that someone is there under duress, withdrawing money, or it's something weird out of their normal habits, which for me that was the case. It was definitely out of my normal banking habits, um, that they can pause that transaction until they can be reassured that it's a legitimate transaction taking place and not being done under dress.

Michelle Escobar

Yeah.

Jane Dean

So that is a biggie for the banks.

Michelle Escobar

Right. So I think sharing your stories and bringing that awareness to everyone, the way you all are going out and and and and and speaking to the government, speaking to newspapers, going on podcasts, everything that you're doing. Um, and bringing the awareness is important because I think then comes that what I always say is it takes a village. Because if you have that awareness, then people will then um have the the the knowledge of of what may be going on and how to approach things. One one last thing before we are we're done. Um Can I address it?

Jane Dean

Yes, absolutely. The three of us are highly, highly committed and motivated to getting the word out there to make sure that this does not happen to anyone else. Yes. And that is what's driving us.

Michelle Escobar

And you're doing your part. And that was my going to be my final question. What would be our part as the community if we see something, we say something? What would you say to your friends, the one that said, well, you know, this was this was you know, dumb that this happened, or or what would you say to these, to, to your to family and friends um to when they see something strange? Um, even if they think, hey, that that shouldn't be happening, you shouldn't have fell for that. What would you say?

Healing After Fraud And Finding Support

Judith Boivin

Keep talking. Tell them our story. Tell them that you heard this, you heard that. I've read this, this is what I found out. Now, not we do not represent uh the romance scam, which is such a deep thing and very, very painful because the individuals that are ensnared in that have their hearts stolen by an imposter, frequently a celebrity, somebody very, very important, or somebody that's just snagged them on Facebook or social media through dating apps and so on. Um, and they they do the betrayal over usually much longer times. Mine was a pretty long financial scam, but usually even the romance, well, the romance scam is also financial, but the person is in so much love with this person that's just showering them, and then they'll they'll get little nuggets, promise of a visit, promise of gifts. Some of them receive gifts. Those scams are very, very hard to interrupt. And the frequently the children or a partner, somebody, friend, may know that something's going on here. But even though they warn the individual, their hearts are stolen. Yes.

Jane Dean

So what what I end up with, uh, the last thing I say when I'm in my presentation is, you know, at the end of my presentation, I just look around the room and I look at everybody in the room, and I just say, there's someone in this room who has been scammed or is currently being scammed who is too embarrassed, humiliated, or ashamed to let anyone know that this is happening to them or has happened to them. And I tell them, you cannot. This alone, you have to talk to someone. That's how I close my comments. Excellent. That's right.

Dolores Miller

That's what I'm glad she brought that up because I wanted to address the emotional part. I mean, we're sitting here telling our stories and you know, acting normal, and that's not the way it starts out. And I can speak for myself when that moment that I discovered I'd been scammed, I hated myself. I was embarrassed. I was humiliated. I was numb. And I actually, I have said, I did not know how life, I didn't know how to live life. I was like, I couldn't, I was frozen. I didn't know how I would talk or walk or and I knew at that moment that I had to talk to somebody else that had this happen to them so that I could be reassured that I could, my my life could go on. And I found the fraud victim support group probably within two weeks. And I remember I had not smiled. I couldn't find joy in anything. And I remember when I got to the support group, I saw people smiling and waving to each other. And I thought, how could they smile? That can't be. I'm not going to ever smile. And it was within weeks, or I guess. And they will say, because they were both there before me. I just all of a sudden one day I realized when I got there and people said hi Dolores, I smiled. And I thought, wow, it's happening. And then the facilitator had talked about the healing journey. And I thought then, a healing journey, I hadn't expected that. There, I can heal. But it's so important for people to hear that part. So they come forward. So not only do I want to help keep this happening from happening to others, but also to help those who have had it happen, because I know that horrible feeling. And we hear people openly say in our group, I want to kill myself. They'll even say it, I still want to kill myself. And so there's a statistic of how many people commit suicide over this.

Michelle Escobar

These thieves, these scammers, these, these, these horrible, horrible people get you at your most vulnerable states, whether it's fear, whether it's you want to help someone, whether it's romance, you're lonely, they they know exactly where to get you.

Jane Dean

They're extremely sophisticated. Yes. Very sophisticated.

Michelle Escobar

Yeah. And and and you're victims. You're victims. And and and and you've been violated. And so that comes with embarrassment, but it also, like you said, it comes with healing and support is. And now we're survivors. That's right. And now you're survivors. Yeah.

Dolores Miller

A woman actually came up to us. I don't know if it was all three of us, I don't remember. And this was like maybe a month or two ago after our presentation and said, I believe you have saved me because I can see how this could have happened to me. And that was like, okay, thank you. Now I can I can keep going on some more.

Judith Boivin

Yeah. And then people that um have been scammed but have not found the support group have also AARP's broad network is uh, well, I think it's unmatchable. Yep, yeah. And we all regained our lives through the support groups.

Jane Dean

Yep. Judith and I came right about the same time. And I remember when Dolores came. I mean she was a mess. She was a real mess. Yeah.

Michelle Escobar

So it really broke. And we just broke broken.

Jane Dean

That's a very good word. I was solid. We followed your transition. It took months, but little did we know. Yeah, this is what was going to happen.

Judith Boivin

Yeah.

Michelle Escobar

That's right. Thank you. Thank you all. Is there any final words at all? No, what about you? What about me?

Host’s Scam Reminder And Next Steps

Michelle Escobar

Yeah. I was a victim too. I got a phone stolen from myself and I work in the the consumer protection. Um, my part is a home improvement. So I wasn't like, as soon as I bought the phone, I got a phone call that the phone didn't work. You just got a phone, you just got the phone. Yeah, it's not working. We need to update it. We need you to bring it back. And so me trying to just run errands, like, okay, I'm gonna go do that. I send the phone back. And I didn't think of all the red flags that I should have thought of. First of all, I should have gotten maybe an email and they send me, they'll send me the box so I can send the phone back. But I went ahead and and sent it. I didn't look at the email, nothing matched. So again, it can happen to anyone. Absolutely. Yes. And I was embarrassed. I shared my story on the podcast with my coworker. I hadn't told anybody, my family knew, and they made fun of me, of course. And but again, it's not funny. No, it's not funny. And and and and and it does. Manipulation. Yes, it's not funny.

Judith Boivin

And betrayal, manipulation, betrayal, and then the shame, the self-shame. And I had lots and lots of physical symptoms afterwards. You don't sleep. Yes, yeah. Your mind is always going. And uh yeah. Yeah. And then the the fallout from taxes and and the family, everybody is affected by it. Yes.

Dolores Miller

But this will leave life a lifelong scar. Yes. Just like a physical injury, it does. No matter how much we heal and how much we share, that's right. That scar will never go away.

Michelle Escobar

Absolutely. Absolutely. I'll never see my my my phone, my bill, my because I know that I'm paying for that scammer's phone. I'm paying for, you know, and and and there's always something that stays with you. That sense of vulnerability never goes away. That's right. That's right. Thank you so much, Lady. Oh, you're welcome. Really appreciate your sensitivity. Yes. Thank you. Yes, thank you. And don't go anywhere.

APS Teaser And Community CTA

Michelle Escobar

Next, we're joined by Mario Wawrzusin from Montgomery County Adult Protective Services. We'll look at the role APS plays in serving vulnerable adults, how they partner with families when something doesn't feel right, and how APS and OCP work together around WEAD to lift community awareness. Don't forget to subscribe on your favorite podcast platform and keep an eye out for upcoming episodes where we'll continue to bring you important updates and insights on consumer protection. Have a topic in mind for a future episode or a question for our team? Drop us an email at ConsumerConnection @Montgomery CountyMD.gov. If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with your friends and family and stay in the loop with OCP by searching the hashtag MCGOCP on social media. Remember, knowledge is key for safeguarding your consumer rights. Stay informed, stay protected, and stay connected. Until next time.

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